How to do 6.x style SWD in 7?

ddavis · 02-14-2009, 03:50 PM

I've seen a couple of articles about using "Package Delivery" in 7 to match how SWD was done in 6.x. However, that method uses Task Server tasks, not SWD Policy tasks. I'm not seeing any way to have the agent pre-download files, and then execute locally via scheduled policy two days later.

We like to have download & execute as two separate events. In SWD6, we set the "Availability" time a day or two in front of "Execution" time so that there is sufficient time for all the clients to download the files to cache prior to the scheduled run time & don't clobber the PS's right at execution time.

I'm not seeing anything like that in 7 without using the new "Managed Delivery" method (including the library, dependency checks, etc.). It seems to be all Task Server based delivery with immediate download & execute if it's not "Managed Delivery".

Anyone have any thoughts?

aclachey · 03-23-2009, 04:11 PM

You want to stay away from using the managed software delivery method... The Managed Software Delivery method was designed to be used with packages that have dependancies set with that package... What your looking at doing might have to be done with the Software Delivery task.

And yes...most everything within NS7 is Task Server based..

Hopefully that helps...

ddavis · 03-24-2009, 08:47 AM

Thanks, aclachey!

Yeah, I figured the Managed Delivery was meant for dependencies, prerequisites, & such. And Task Server delivery doesn't really fit the bill the way our procedures are set now for the business - to allow pkg download for a couple of days before local execution (I've been told to keep processes as close to current as possbile at first to not interupt business too much, then introduce the 7.x enhancements [i.e. managed delivery] little by little over time).

How do you deliver a large application like Office 2007 to 10,000 computers in one night with a Task Server task that both downloads & executes at the same time on all of them? I would think that that would kill your infrastructure for the download requests all at once, and would mean machines would be executing for weeks because of the bottle-neck in package downloads? We need to have something that facilitates the pre-cache locally for a good couple of days prior to a local execution.

I don't see anything in NS7 that really does that any more without all of the dependency checking & such.

The only way I can see, and even then it's a question mark... a Managed Delivery that does a dependency check at a given time (the old Availability time), and then the client pre-downloads the package because it didn't pass the dependency, and then remediation (the old Execution time) is set for a specific future time for all machines.

Is that really the only way to do SWD that allows some pre-cache timeframe for large packages?

Also, how would you do a sequential, or even a managed distribution with a pre-req (that you know is not there as well - I'll call that managed sequential), to 30,000? With Task Server, there's no time allowed for pre-cache of all the sequenced packages. With 'Managed Sequential', I don't know if the pre-req (or even the main) package would be pre-cached or not after the dependency check fails & prior to the later scheduled remediation.

Am I missing something?

Nick · 03-24-2009, 11:15 AM

I'm still getting my head wrapped around all this stuff as well but as I understand it Task Server 7 will "prestage" to the target systems prior to running a task.

In other words if you plan to install MS Office 2007 to systems 2 weeks from today but create the task today, it will be sent to a site server then replicated from the site server to the systems serviced by the site server. The task will then run at the scheduled time on the targeted systems.

ddavis · 03-24-2009, 01:11 PM

Thanks Nick,

I forgot that you could schedule a Task Server job for future, as well as do it "run now" style. So in this case, the old "Available date" is just when you enable/assign the TS job.
Do you know for sure that the Agent will cache the necessary files specified by the TS scheduled job (all of them, if it's a sequence of different packages)?

I've been pulled in another direction temporarily, so I don't have a 7.x test bed environment up any more.

Thanks,
Darrell

Nick · 03-24-2009, 01:21 PM

Darrell,

I personally am not sure as I ran the question by a friend of mine that I consider to be "the" Task Server expert.

I responded with what he explained to me. I will see if I can get him to pop in and clarify a bit more.

vortex0007 · 03-25-2009, 09:38 AM

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the scenario you are describing is not possible using Task Server 7. Task itself it not aware of the state of the packages and so by itself there is no way for it to be aware if the package is there or not as Task does not handle the downloading of the package. Task hands this responsibility over to the NS Agent which works with the Software Management solution to get the package pulled down.

The only way to pre-stage packages in CMS7 is to use Managed Delivery.

As to your general comments about bringing down the network with your Office rollout - if you have properly configured bandwidth throttling and Site Services then you will not have this problem you describe as the Office install files will be coming from the local Site Servers not from the NS itself - and those Site Servers should be on the local network of the clients.

jharings · 03-25-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

I personally am not sure as I ran the question by a friend of mine

You have friends? I'm jealous.

Nick · 03-25-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jharings

You have friends? I'm jealous.

<laugh> They assure me they will remain my friends as long as the monthly "friendship" payments don't stop.

jessek · 05-06-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vortex0007

As to your general comments about bringing down the network with your Office rollout - if you have properly configured bandwidth throttling and Site Services then you will not have this problem you describe as the Office install files will be coming from the local Site Servers not from the NS itself - and those Site Servers should be on the local network of the clients.

First, I apologize for re-visiting a two-month old topic. The original poster brings up a very good point, and while I agree entirely about configuring Site Servers and leveraging bandwidth throttling, that doesn't help with scheduling software delivery around users' schedules.

Here's an example. We have many medical transcriptionists that work remotely over VPN connections. They work all sorts of hours - weekends, very late evenings, very early mornings, and so on. We use pretty extreme bandwidth throttling with these users because they have a myriad of remote connections through different ISPs and they complain if they notice ANY slowdown whatsoever, so they're currently downloading at 20Kb/s 24x7. Those downloads only progress while they are connected via VPN. With Altiris 6 I'd enable a SWD task weeks in advance, schedule a day and time for the task to execute, and we'd communicate this to all of the remote users so that they'd know when it was going to happen as we wanted to keep disruption to their work at a minimum.

We can't do it that way with Altiris 7. The only way to accomplish it is with Maintenance Windows. According to the Software Management Solution user's guide (page 97), the compliance phase will download the package in its final step. If remediation is set to occur only in a maintenance window then you can guarantee an execution time for the task. That's fine, I guess, but it's certainly a change from what we've grown very accustomed to.

ddavis · 05-18-2009, 02:43 PM

I agree Jesse.

What I have thought & heard of so far is to use Managed Software Delivery. To get that to match 6.x SWD, you use the compliance part as the old "Availability" time. If the compliance determines it needs the installation files (in this case, is not installed at all), it will then set the package to be downloaded by the NS Agent & wait to run at the scheduled remediation time acting as the 6.x "Execution" time.
However, I have been unable to validate if the package files will actually be downloaded prior to execution in the case that you set the compliance (aka "Availability") time a few days, or a week in advance of the remediation (aka "Execution") time.

Has anyone validated in 7.x SWM that a failure of compliance will trigger the download to start then, even if remediation isn't set to happen until three days after the compliance check?

terryeagle · 02-03-2010, 03:39 PM

Not sure if anyone has gotten any traction on this but i have some autonimous jobs. We like the fact that it can run on machines that are not connected to the network. or if the NS server goes down, the jobs still run.

Ugh!

jessek · 02-03-2010, 03:46 PM

I do have an update on this. I was in a meeting with Symantec a couple months back and I brought up this topic. They said that they had received this feedback from other customers and that they were adding additional compliance and remediation scheduling which will address this. I'm about to install the RC for CMS SP2, so I'll see if it's been included in that.

Client Task Schedules, by the way, can also accomplish what you are looking for. The problem is that they can only run one task. A client task is run through the Task Engine, but when you use a Client Task Schedule it is run by the Policy Engine. We do this for scheduled server restarts, for example. The NS could be turned off but the Client Task Schedule is a policy on the endpoints and will run as scheduled.

terryeagle · 02-03-2010, 03:50 PM

jessek;

That is exactly what we use it for, we also do PCT's and a host of other things. its strange and rudimentry and marjinally ok at delivering software, but for this stuff it rocked!.

i guess they took the "make it more like the DS" a little too far!